I am happy

Discussion in 'Picture Show' started by Jack, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. Saurav

    Saurav Active Member War Zone Member


    All I'm saying is, you've traded one set of compromises for another. Clearly, for you, your current set of compromises are more preferable. All I'm saying it, it's still a compromise.

    If you recall, my original comment about a center channel speaker was to address Larry's comment about how you don't need a center channel if you're not sitting off-axis, and all I did was point out that a center channel is useful for more than that. That's all. Obviously, a bad center channel isn't necessarily better than no center channel, and we all agree on that.

    I disagree. Comments like this, and "I am not a sheep", seem to simply say - if everyone is doing something, it's cooler to do something else. From my POV, standards are there to be understood, and then applied to your own situation as appropriate. Blindly rejecting something simply because everyone else does it, is as silly as blindly following something for the same reason. Both are based on faith alone, and no understanding.
  2. CJ

    CJ Bronze Member Admin War Zone Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    Ah the good old days. Having not participated in this thread and just skimming where it has recently been going, my outsider opinion is that Mike, Larry and David are ALL right but that Mike and David are being a little more objective than Larry. I haven't seen people talk about demo disks in HT forever. That was a 90s thing when HT was new. I see threads about bombastic films (Transformers) but these threads ARE actually about the film, not the quality of the sound FX. Its a guilty pleasures type of admission. People are admitting that the movie isn't artistic but they bought the disc because it was a fun romp NOT because it was good demo material... if Larry thinks that is what the (we in some cases) are saying, he's wrong.

    So I think Larry is overplaying that card badly. On the flip side I DO indeed think many people get into audiophiley type music because it is recorded well. I fell into that trap and one of the reasons I've backed off the hobby a bit is because I discovered I don't really like that music all that well and the stuff I do like isn't always recorded well. So Mike and David (and others) have a point as well. Audiophiles have demo disks too. And yes, when you go to RMAF and in general when I hear audiophiles talk, I hear them talk about the technical aspects (bass, treble, soundstage etc.) In other words, they fall into the same gearhead demo trap that HT guys do.

    At the end of the day both camps have true content lovers and both camps have gear heads and people in both hobbies sometimes move too far into the gearhead direction but then come back. To argue that one group is worse about it than another is just mental masturbation.
  3. Jack

    Jack Well-Known Member Donor War Zone Member Top Poster

    I have chewed on it, against what is it able to be balanced ? A set of ideals that is rarely used in reproduction houses ? So I should set up my system to hit an ideal that is not used in the mastering labs ? Naw, I shall set it up the same way the rest of us do, by ear. Everyone of us uses our ears to pick how we think something should sound. We are all right you know.
  4. DYohn

    DYohn Well-Known Member Donor

    I agree with CJ.
  5. Jack

    Jack Well-Known Member Donor War Zone Member Top Poster

    Ok, I will go with that.
  6. Jack

    Jack Well-Known Member Donor War Zone Member Top Poster

    So I am wrong and am not happy with my system ? I knew it. Damn, my wife was right, I am always wrong. :eek:
  7. Mike

    Mike Bon Vivant Top Poster

    I must admit that I am confused Jack.

    When I was in LA visiting the mastering studios and Film sound mixing stages, the set up procedures that I am speaking about were adhered to quite strictly. This same standards are then applied to the home system to get the home system dialed in as closely as possible to the way the sound was mixed.

    The same thing applies to video standards.

    That is why HT is miles ahead of hi-end audio for the accurate reproduction of the recorded material in my opinion. There are standards that are adhered to during production AND reproduction.

    Maybe we are talking about different things?

  8. DYohn

    DYohn Well-Known Member Donor

    And by the way Larry, my 2-channel system used to consist of a set of JBL 4315 studio monitors driven by a Crest Audio pro amp and Sound Workshop mixing board. It doubled as a the monitor for a recording studio in my living room. I loved it but alas, times change.
  9. Mike

    Mike Bon Vivant Top Poster

    One of the most fascinating things I experienced in LA was in a DVD mastering facility.

    Several of us stood in the control room with the mastering engineer and watched the level meters for each channel (I cannot recall which film was being mastered). The were pretty steady at 75db.

    But the amazing thing is that the studio was so flat acoustically that we could all speak to each other in a near whisper while the sound was playing at reference level.

    That really opened my eyes as to how important room treatments were and how critical it was to have all the speakers at the same level.

  10. Jack

    Jack Well-Known Member Donor War Zone Member Top Poster

    Then why do no 2 discs appear similar volume wise or quality wise ?

    Standards are about money, time to do it right costs money, most studios would rather save their money than do it right. Again, my opinion.
  11. Jack

    Jack Well-Known Member Donor War Zone Member Top Poster

    This is the coolest thing, most musicians, own what is not considered high end equipment by the audio gurus.
  12. Mike

    Mike Bon Vivant Top Poster

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52cQeFBU2Kw"]YouTube - The Who - Happy Jack[/ame]

    Thread title reminds me of this every time I read it.
  13. Graeme

    Graeme Active Member War Zone Member

    I too agree with David agreeing with CJ. This makes me a bit scared. If Mike comes in and agrees with me agreeing with David agreeing with CJ, then I will be freaking petrified. :)

    Seriously though, I have yet to find an equipment-based hobby that doesn't result in a portion of enthusiasts doing things to strictly show off their equipment.

    Home Theater, Home Audio, Car Audio, Cars themselves, Motorbikes, Bicycles, Photography, Computer Equipment, the list goes on.

    I've seen:
    - People buying music solely on the basis of the recording
    - People buying discs because they were the only SACD they could find
    - People buying DVDs because they were the only DTS discs they could find
    - People buying DVDs because of their bitstream numbers
    - People buying a camera lens based upon numbers, ignoring whether or not they'd actually find a use for the particular focal length
    - People taking and posting thousands photos of things strictly to show how well their camera focused, but never posting a photo for actual artistic merit
    - People upgrading their PC to hit phenomenal numbers, yet they don't use it for anything (not even gaming)
  14. Mike

    Mike Bon Vivant Top Poster

    Probably variants in the source material. A film that is dialog driven at 75db will sound much quieter than Transformers at the same level.

    The ideal playback level for a film is 75db. That is "reference level".

    If your system is "zeroed out" at 75db then the proper intended volume will be at 0 on your equipment. You cannot do this without a SPL meter.

    I do not listen nearly that loudly, but I do calibrate to that level.

  15. Jack

    Jack Well-Known Member Donor War Zone Member Top Poster

    Ok, I am wrong. I will accept that. I really dont want to go back to the other way, so I will just accept, I am not following the rules. In Savanah I have more room so I will try it there if I go back.
  16. Mike

    Mike Bon Vivant Top Poster

    I think CJ's post is pretty spot on.

    The world can now end. :)

  17. Graeme

    Graeme Active Member War Zone Member

    Okay, that's it. I'm officially ascared. :lol:
  18. Mike

    Mike Bon Vivant Top Poster


    Do you have a SPL meter?

  19. Jack

    Jack Well-Known Member Donor War Zone Member Top Poster

    Yes Mike I do. I use it to level all speakers. It is an analog one, but works well.
  20. Mike

    Mike Bon Vivant Top Poster

    I have an analog one as well, on a tripod even. We are dinosaurs you know. I believe most new equipment has an auto-EQ process that does all the work now.

    Lazy kids. :)


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