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A sincere but probably unpopular question

Discussion in 'The VIP Lounge' started by CJ, Oct 11, 2017 at 9:08 AM.

  1. DYohn

    DYohn Well-Known Member Donor

    Top Poster Of Month

    I hope no one thinks my opinion is attacking theirs in any way. It's just how I see things.
     
    CJ likes this.
  2. CJ

    CJ Well-Known Member Admin War Zone Member

    I didn't think so, hence my comment. We good.
     
    DYohn likes this.
  3. DustinDavis

    DustinDavis Well-Known Member War Zone Member

    I appreciate what David's saying and everyone's handling this topic with equanimity. But I also think all ideas and opinions should be open to attack. As long as we don't delve into ad hominem. Fuckers.
     
    DYohn likes this.
  4. DustinDavis

    DustinDavis Well-Known Member War Zone Member

    Hard to explain how much my wife likes it when I start paging through the logical fallacy Wiki in my head during a disagreement. "Look I accept your feelings on this matter. But, they are irrelevant." Highly recommended.
     
  5. CJ

    CJ Well-Known Member Admin War Zone Member

    Yep, straw man and anecdotal arguments probably irritate me even more than ad hominem attacks. The thing I see more of today, which is why I'm off facebook except to share a photo of my kids maybe once a month, is this increasingly popular idea that your emotions are equally as valid as my facts. It is absolutely infuriating. Things are not true just because you really really want them to be.
     
    DYohn likes this.
  6. DYohn

    DYohn Well-Known Member Donor

    Top Poster Of Month

    My favorite t-shirt to wear while shopping these days reads, "Science doesn't care about your beliefs."
     
  7. Drew

    Drew Well-Known Member War Zone Member Top Poster

    Playing devils advocate. What is the difference between

    Being the victim of an assault and saying nothing with the possible understanding of you not being the ONLY nor the LAST.

    and

    Not telling someone there is a crazed person around the corner with a gun with clear intent to kill someone


    I think you can draw a-however-thin line between a previous victim bearing some responsibility for later victims without BEING responsible for for the cause of those later victims.
     
  8. DYohn

    DYohn Well-Known Member Donor

    Top Poster Of Month

    The difference is huge when talking about sexual assault. Sexual assault is a deeply personal attack in a way that is both demeaning and traumatic and which attacks the victim's sense of self-respect, self-worth and control of their own body. It is an extremely emotional attack in a way that being punched in the nose or even shot with a gun is not. It involves control, power, submission and subjugation in ways that simple physical attack cannot. Being sexually attacked can create destruction of the victim's will - including their will to live.
     
    DustinDavis likes this.
  9. Drew

    Drew Well-Known Member War Zone Member Top Poster

    Agreed, it is in no way a fair comparison to try to boil the example down to the act of not reporting it because of all the reasons you stated and "hey man, watch out for that pot hole".
     
    DYohn likes this.
  10. GHilinski

    GHilinski Active Member War Zone Member

    True and depressing story. In the late 80's, a good friend of mine was the first to tell about sexual assault by a priest at school. He told his parents, they did not believe him, he told the school, they did not believe him, at first he told the papers and they did not believe him. It took him going to a lawyer and he believed him. He was the first to su the catholic church.

    Maybe there is a bit truth here in that maybe an individual thought that how could that happen, he goes so much to charity and makes starving actors millionaires.
     
  11. JeffC

    JeffC Active Member War Zone Member

    I wonder if future victims is even much of a consideration at that point? Fortunately, I don't have any experience in this area personally or in my immediate circle. But, it seems to be a pretty popular topic in movies/TV where they plead with the victim to think of future victims. Maybe when you're in that box, whether you take money or not, you just stay in the box and the rest of the world is outside. Having a 17 year old daughter, I hope I never find out...
     
    DYohn likes this.
  12. CJ

    CJ Well-Known Member Admin War Zone Member

    I guess then I go back to the non victims responsibility. In many cases they 1) face the same consequences for reporting as the victim and 2) may feel like not only are they outing the perpetrator but they are outing the victim who they may have already spoken with and the victim does NOT want to go through the storm of having the incident reported.

    I guess its complicated and I'm not trying to really solve for anything here. I just often seen people being excoriated in the media because "they knew" when the victim knew too, in fact even more so. Of then the outsiders really didn't quote unquote "know" but they are dragged through the mud.
     
  13. JeffC

    JeffC Active Member War Zone Member

    If your CEO was grabbing ass around the office, and you knew reporting it would cost you your job, would you report it?

    I'm confident I'd report rape, but I'm not so sure about grab ass. :(
     
  14. CJ

    CJ Well-Known Member Admin War Zone Member

    Here’s another problem. Generally this gets joked about.



    There’s also a video of Weinstein on Graham Norton basically joking about harassing Judy Dench and everyone is laughing.
     
  15. Drew

    Drew Well-Known Member War Zone Member Top Poster

    That's Dame Judi Dench you uncultured swine.

    Dench has a "JD loves HW" tattoo on her butt.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017 at 3:10 PM

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